only 这四支有历史背景的队伍，包括文礼，北斗，波那维斯达 和 加基武吉有能力主办未来的团体联赛 if any.

http://v15.huasing.org/sForum/bbs.php?B=123_11009472


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If we could rank the organisers ......

The list of organisers for 10 years (1995 to 2004) 团体联赛

波那维斯达 C.C. -- 1995 & 2002
文礼 C.C. -- 1996 & 2001
芽笼西 C.C. -- 1997
加基武吉 C.C. -- 1998
北斗象棋俱乐部 -- 1999
甘榜格南C.C. -- 2000
武吉甘柏 C.C. -- 2003
裕华 C.C. -- 2004

http://v15.huasing.org/sForum/bbs.php?B=123_11009867

In fact, discussions held in 2006 (象总) and 2007 (义顺南) previously on 团体联赛, quite a number of teams having problems in joining the 团体联赛, personally, I do not see the current situations are better than 2006 and 2007, i.e. to have 团体联赛 for 4 days or more.

2007年义顺南人民协会脑力益智挑战象棋团体赛 only held in 2 days for most of the teams except the Top 4 teams to have one more day at suntec.

由于赛期较长，我会未能组队参加2003年武吉甘柏与2004年裕华的团体联赛。

We have done a review recently for the major competitions in the past 7 years and having the following suggestions, i.e. to limit the 团体联赛 or 团体赛 to maximum of 2 days.


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Summary of suggestions : --

四人， 五人 or 六人 is not the main concern.
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碧山民众俱乐部象棋会成立(于2002年6月27日)至今，七年来国内较主要/大型（最少八队与四人）的团体赛只有下列七项：

1. 2002年加基武吉第二届周亨增杯象棋团体赛 (八队，六人)
2. 2003年武吉甘柏第九届象棋团体联赛 (九队，六人)
3. 2004年裕华第十届象棋团体联赛 (八队，六人)
4. 2004年甘榜格南第一届狮城杯象棋团体赛 (A组八队，B组十四队，四人)
5. 2005年义顺南第二届狮城杯象棋团体赛 (A组八队，B组十队，四人)
6. 2007年义顺南第一届李美花杯象棋团体赛 (十四队，四人)
7. 2007年义顺南人民协会脑力益智挑战象棋团体赛 (十二队，四人)

希望个别有条件的民众俱乐部或象棋组织，在象棋总会的牵引下，能跟进主办这一类的活动，这不但能推动新加坡棋运，同时也促进各棋会间的联系。而2003年至今的一日团体赛(N队，N-1人，雅柏广场式联谊赛)，不失为一项棋队的联谊活动，但其中运气成分过高，如果一、二日团体赛是基本要求，象总与有条件的象棋组织应探讨2002年第三届直落亚逸芳林公园民众俱乐部象棋“七雄夺金马“一日循环团体赛(四人)赛制的定位，以激发棋队与棋手们的积极性，另一项可供考虑的是以队员(四人)个人赛排名总分制的全国社区(五区)团体赛(二日)。

after National Day, this could 激发棋队与棋手们的积极性.

Anyway, not an easy task.

First step is to get enough players, ......

六台六位棋手下一局，三先三后。


张辽 and 卷心菜 please don't think wild. :-)

If we look at this issue from another view point ........


6年来参加全国个人赛有级人数：


2003 年 22人；

2004 年 24人；

2005 年 14人；

2006 年 22人；

2007 年 28人；

2008 年 22人。

So, the actual problem is not enough 有级 for the competitions. :(

If we study (e.g. to study those teams joined 全国团体联赛 in 2003 and / or 2004 and those teams did not join in 2003 and 2004) the issue by teams, may surface even more problems. :(

only 22 有级 per year in the past 6 years 全国个人赛, i.e. we need at least 38 无级 for the coming 文礼象棋团体赛 if there are 10 teams.

Right, the strong team can send 9个有级 and 3个无级, ............

9个有级 -- can play 3 games each

3个无级 -- play all the 9 games

How many teams can have 9个有级 and also they are free to join ?

By the way, since all 9 rounds need to be completed within 4 days, may be should allow 9个有级 and 9个无级 but each round to have maximum of 3个有级.

--------------------------------------------------------

Last but not least, one alternative for 团体赛 is to have Division A, Division B etc for different levels of players, i.e. same as 全国个人赛, but due to not enough 有级 players, SIXGA may have this year 全国个人赛 in one combined division, as in 2005 and 2006.

as mentioned in ....

团体联赛 after 10 years (1995 to 2004), why stop ? the reasons ..........

http://v15.huasing.org/sForum/bbs.php?B=123_11009470

狮城杯 in 2004 and 2005 as mentioned above could be a better approach :

-- 2004年甘榜格南第一届狮城杯象棋团体赛 (A组八队，B组十四队，四人)
-- 2005年义顺南第二届狮城杯象棋团体赛 (A组八队，B组十队，四人)

Quite a number of xiangqi clubs need to tackle the following concerns before forming the teams :

(A) Is budget the main concern ?

(B) Is duration too long ?

(C) Is team size of 6 too big ?

Alternatively, the method of 2002年第三届直落亚逸芳林公园民众俱乐部象棋“七雄夺金马“一日循环团体赛(四人)赛制 should be studied in more details, e.g you can have A组七队，B组七队 to complete in one day of 3 rounds (文礼's schedule also has 3 rounds on the first Sunday, 16 Aug 2009), 四人， 五人 or 六人 (i.e. total of 八人， 十人 or 十二人 in two sub-teams each round, can have another few players as reserve) is not the main concern. The 七雄 in 2002 had learned the method.

For “七雄夺金马“ method, 九队 in 4 rounds and 十一队 in 5 rounds and we need to have 2 days only.

May be it is not too late for 文礼 to consider “七雄夺金马“ method as I believe more teams can join with one or two days.

棋赛制度 do not need to change : --

----（1）采单循环制；
----（2）星期六下两场，星期日下三场；
----（3）每局八十分钟加三十秒，每位棋手下一局；
----（4) 棋赛规则与成绩计算采亚洲棋规。

棋手人数 depending on 四人， 五人 or 六人 (i.e. total of 八人， 十人 or 十二人 in two sub-teams each round, can have another few players as reserve)

Also can consider A组 for 有级 (or no condition ?) and B组 for 无级 (and Grade B ?).

may be good for 文礼 to know this as 文礼 did not attend the discussion meeting at Nee Soon South C.C.

reproduced as below : --

http://v15.huasing.org/sForum/bbs.php?B=123_10909850

Lee Bee Wah's Cup in Apr 2007 tried to use 团体联赛 6-player method but a few teams having concerns to form a team. Ended up using 4-player method.

Any suggestion or view ?

As mentioned above, 11 teams can be in two days of 5 rounds without any change of 棋赛制度.

5 teams can be in one day of 2 rounds without any change of 棋赛制度.

So, if you have 10 teams (5 teams in Division A and 5 teams in Division B) can be in one day of 2 rounds without any change of 棋赛制度.

reproduced below : --

Method of Divisions A and B -- 1 Day Event

http://v15.huasing.org/sForum/bbs.php?B=123_10951092

Anyway, the few posts in the last 3 to 4 days just hope to improve the system so that more teams can join.

If it is too late to change the system, we just try to form team (tackle the issues of budget, duration and number of players) when the official letter is in.

one of the rules stated, any player can have up to maximum of 4 先手.


由于赛期较长，我会未能组队参加2003年武吉甘柏与2004年裕华的团体联赛。

A check of the past records,

甘榜格南, 义顺南 and 淡滨尼东 did not join both 2003 and 2004 团体联赛

and

长河 （飞鹰） and 芽笼西 （哥南亚逸） did not join 2004 团体联赛

may be need to check with the 5 teams on their main concerns :

(A) Is budget the main concern ?

(B) Is duration too long ?

(C) Is team size of 6 too big ?

(D) Any other reasons ?

2002年6月27日至今国内较主要/大型的团体赛, ......

http://v15.huasing.org/sForum/bbs.php?B=123_10987687

碧山民众俱乐部象棋会简讯 (33) dated 22-04-2008


碧山民众俱乐部象棋会于2002年6月27日正式成立至今，五年多来国内较主要/大型的团体赛只有下列7项：

1. 2002加基武吉第二届周亨增杯象棋团体赛
2. 2003武吉甘柏第9届象棋团体联赛
3. 2004裕华第10届象棋团体联赛
4. 2004甘榜格南第一届狮城杯象棋团体赛
5. 2005义顺南第二届狮城杯象棋团体赛
6. 2007义顺南第一届李美花杯象棋团体赛
7. 2007义顺南人民协会脑力益智挑战象棋团体赛

义顺南民众俱乐部是三年来国内3项主要团体赛的唯一主办者。

did you read my suggestion ????

你是在推动象棋的发展还是阻碍象棋的发展？？？

At least I try to think of solution since there are so many concerns over the last few years and


2002年第三届直落亚逸芳林公园民众俱乐部象棋“七雄夺金马“一日循环团体赛(四人)赛制 could be (五人)赛制 or (六人)赛制

is a better solution.

You are to check on this method with me as mentioned in one of your previous posts but so far no news !!!

We at Bishan are facing the same 3 concerns below :

(A) Is budget the main concern ?

(B) Is duration too long ?

(C) Is team size of 6 too big ?

If we can have “七雄夺金马“ method,

五队 of 2 rounds in one day

七队 of 3 rounds in one day

九队 of 4 rounds in two days

十一队 of 5 rounds in two days


and having the same system of 团体联赛, why we do not want to consider at all ?


All clubs have their own concerns, if your club has no problem to join this time could not imply no problem for all clubs.

As mentioned, we try to form the team when the official letter is in. This is not a promise as we need to discuss in our EXCO meeting, to get Budget approval from the C.C. and to get enough players.

团体联赛 with one or two days method is definitely easier for us to get funding approval and enough number of players.

Are you having open mind ?

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May be it is not too late for 文礼 to consider “七雄夺金马“ method as I believe more teams can join with one or two days.

棋赛制度 do not need to change : --

----（1）采单循环制；
----（2）星期六下两场，星期日下三场；
----（3）每局八十分钟加三十秒，每位棋手下一局；
----（4) 棋赛规则与成绩计算采亚洲棋规。

I mentioned a few teams did not join 2003 and / or 2004 团体联赛, is more for the organiser(s) to pay attentions to those concerns if they really want to have the targets of 10 teams.

In fact, one regular team for the past ten 团体联赛 did show the concerns in 2006 and 2007 meetings but now may not have the concern, other than this team, for most of other teams, I do not see the current situations are better than 2006 and 2007, this is my concern regarding the targets of 10 teams for 4-day event although at Bishan, we will try our best to support this coming 4-day event even if there is no changes.

and the competition can be done within 2 days with the method of


2002年第三届直落亚逸芳林公园民众俱乐部象棋“七雄夺金马“一日循环团体赛(四人)赛制 could be (五人)赛制 or (六人)赛制 (i.e. total of 八人， 十人 or 十二人 in two sub-teams each round, can have another few players as reserve)


五队 of 2 rounds in one day

七队 of 3 rounds in one day

九队 of 4 rounds in two days

十一队 of 5 rounds in two days


it could be a much better arrangement for all teams.


Yes, 参赛者应该尊重主办当局，服从赛制, especially this is 文礼团体赛 and not 团体联赛。


Bishan was not in any 团体联赛 meetings previously, for 团体联赛, I heard that the first meeting is to discuss 赛制.


As Bishan was not one of the 七雄 in 2002 too, we will not give further view on this matter. A check with those 七雄 and organiser could be better.


Last but not least, at Bishan, after receiving the official letter, we will try our best to support this coming 4-day event even if there is no changes.

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May be it is not too late for 文礼 to consider “七雄夺金马“ method as I believe more teams can join with one or two days.

棋赛制度 do not need to change : --

----（1）采单循环制；
----（2）星期六下两场，星期日下三场；
----（3）每局八十分钟加三十秒，每位棋手下一局；
----（4) 棋赛规则与成绩计算采亚洲棋规。