感染率和抗体产生率一样
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-10 16:09:37  楼主  关注此帖
【饮食健康】德国疫情最严重市镇抽样调查 15%居民已产生抗体2020-04-10 13:51 中新网4月10日电 据欧联社援引德国媒体报道,当地时间9日,德国研究人员发布了一项针对疫情严重地区的抽样调查中期报告。报告显示,在德国疫情严重地区,约有15%的居民已产生新冠肺炎病毒抗体。据悉,该项调查旨在了解新冠肺炎病毒传播途径和危险性。 据报道,此次抽样调查,研究人员对北威州海因斯贝格市冈格尔特市镇数百名居民进行调查分析,得出的中期报告结果显示,该市镇新冠肺炎病毒感染率大约为15%,死亡率约为0.37%。此外,大约有15%的居民已经产生了对病毒的免疫力。 负责调查的冈瑟&#8226;哈特曼研究员表示,据目前了解,产生抗体的人其免疫力有效期应在6至18个月之间。 受北威州政府委托,负责此次研究的波恩大学病毒学家亨德里克&#8226;斯特雷克教授表示,初步结果显示,只要保证卫生措施,而且市民遵守相应的行为规定,是有可能逐步放宽管制措施。 该帖荣获当日十大第5,奖励楼主10分以及15华新币,时间:2020-04-10 22:00:06。该帖荣获当日十大第4,奖励楼主12分以及18华新币,时间:2020-04-11 22:00:02。 (more...)
感染率和抗体产生率一样
是不是说感染的人都会有抗体?
还是除了确诊的之外还有15%
即至少有50%的感染者没有症状?
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-10 16:18:36  2楼
感染率和抗体产生率一样是不是说感染的人都会有抗体? 还是除了确诊的之外还有15% 即至少有50%的感染者没有症状?
英文报道在这里 和中文的有些出入
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-10 16:43:36  3楼
英文报道在这里 和中文的有些出入https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/09/999015/blood-tests-show-15-of-people-are-now-immune-to-covid-19-in-one-town-in-germany/ 2%infect and 14% immune,这样就更有意思了
就是说,每两个有症状的人
可能有12个无症状感染
而死亡率为0.37%
这样的话,事情是不是不一样了呢
这是第一个普查类报告
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-10 17:09:28  4楼
就是说,每两个有症状的人可能有12个无症状感染 而死亡率为0.37% 这样的话,事情是不是不一样了呢 这是第一个普查类报告
如果按照英文的报告,有85%的感染者
无症状
死亡率0.37%
那么事情就滑稽了吧
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-10 17:23:05  5楼
你理解错了有抗体是指以前感染过,而不是正在感染但没症状。 They found that 2% of residents were actively infected by the coronavirus and a total of 14% had antibodies, indicating a prior infection. 就是说很多人很久以前就被感染过了,他们不知道而已。 很大概率整个欧洲包括英国估计去年10月-12月就爆发过了。只不过病状轻没人在意而已。 因为意大利研究也是类似,意大利追溯到1月初有相似病症的人有抗体。 美国追溯到去年12月有相似症状的人有抗体
看原文吧
这个才是正道
Germany to run Europe’s first large-scale antibody test programme
https://www.ft.com/content/fe211ec7-0ed4-4d36-9d83-14b639efb3ad

Germany could issue thousands of people coronavirus ‘immunity certificates’ so they can leave the lockdown early
https://www.businessinsider.sg/coronavirus-germany-covid-19-immunity-certificates-testing-social-distancing-lockdown-2020-3?r=US&IR=T

Coronavirus: Antibody tests 'will be crucial' in determining when to lift lockdowns
https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/06/coronavirus-antibody-tests-will-be-crucial-in-determining-when-to-lift-lockdowns
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-10 17:24:37  6楼
你理解错了有抗体是指以前感染过,而不是正在感染但没症状。 They found that 2% of residents were actively infected by the coronavirus and a total of 14% had antibodies, indicating a prior infection. 就是说很多人很久以前就被感染过了,他们不知道而已。 很大概率整个欧洲包括英国估计去年10月-12月就爆发过了。只不过病状轻没人在意而已。 因为意大利研究也是类似,意大利追溯到1月初有相似病症的人有抗体。 美国追溯到去年12月有相似症状的人有抗体
原文照帖
How many people have really been infected by the coronavirus? In one German town a preliminary answer is in: about 14%.
The municipality of Gangelt, near the border with the Netherlands, was hard hit by covid-19 after a February carnival celebration drew thousands to the town, turning it into an accidental petri dish.
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Now, after searching blood from 500 residents for antibodies to the virus, scientists at a nearby university say they have determined that one in seven have been infected and are therefore “immune.” Some of those people would have had no symptoms at all.
Their brief report (PDF), posted online in German, has big implications for how soon that town, and the rest of the world, can come out from lockdown.
“To me it looks like we don’t yet have a large fraction of the population exposed,” says Nicholas Christakis, a doctor and social science researcher at Yale University. “They had carnivals and festivals, but only 14% are positive. That means there is a lot more to go even in a hard-hit part of Germany.”
Here's why the true infection rate in a region matters: the bigger it is, the less pain still lies ahead. Eventually, when enough people are immune—maybe half to three-quarters of us—the virus won’t be able to spread further, a concept called herd immunity.
But the German town isn’t close to that threshold yet, and to Christakis the preliminary figure is “unfortunate” because it means the virus still has more damage to do.
The German report is among the first to survey a population for evidence of prior infection, data that scientists need to determine how far the pandemic has spread, what the real death rate is, and how many people show no symptoms at all.
“It’s very preliminary, but it’s the kind of study we desperately need,” says Christakis, who believes the US should test as many as 200,000 people, from big cities like New York to small towns in the Midwest. “This is crucial to quantify a host of basic parameters.”
Globally, the official case count of covid-19 is more than 1.5 million people, but that reckoning mostly includes people who seek medical help and get tested. The true number of people infected, including those without symptoms and who don’t get tested, is far higher.
More data from "sero-surveys" should be available soon; sources include US hospitals. On April 6, Stanford Medicine announced it had launched its own serology test and had begun screening doctors, nurses, and others for antibodies.
“The test will enable us to determine which health-care workers might be at low risk for working with covid-19 patients, as well as understanding disease prevalence in our communities,” said spokesperson Lisa Kim.
Early results from hospitals are already circulating among some experts, says Christakis, who thinks these data will get us “closer to the truth” about how far the infection has spread in US cities. “If you see 5% positive in your health-care workers, that means infection rates probably aren’t higher than that in your city,” he says.
The survey in Germany was carried out by virologist Hendrik Streeck and several others at the University Hospital in Bonn, who say they approached about 1,000 residents of Gangelt to give blood, have their throats swabbed, and fill out a survey.
They found that 2% of residents were actively infected by the coronavirus and a total of 14% had antibodies, indicating a prior infection. This group of people, they say, “can no longer be infected with SARS-CoV-2,” as the virus is known to scientists.
As the virus spreads, it sends a certain percentage of people to the hospital and a few of those to ICUs; a portion of those will die. One of the biggest unanswered questions is exactly what percentage of infected people the coronavirus is killing.
From the result of their blood survey, the German team estimated the death rate in the municipality at 0.37% overall, a figure significantly lower than what’s shown on a dashboard maintained by Johns Hopkins, where the death rate in Germany among reported cases is 2%.
The authors explain that the difference in the calculations boils down to how many people are actually infected but haven’t been counted because they have mild or no symptoms.
The presence of previously infected people in the community, Streeck and colleagues believe, will reduce the speed at which the virus can move in the area. They also outline a process by which social distancing can be slowly unwound, especially given hygienic measures, like handwashing, and isolating and tracking the sick. They think if people avoid getting big doses of the virus—which can happen in hospitals or via close contact with someone infected—fewer people will become severely ill, “while at the same time developing immunity” that can help finally end the outbreak.
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-10 17:28:22  7楼
并且这个报告称他们“免疫”,其实未必这个病毒明显有几种不同的变种,对一种免疫未必对其他种也免疫。其实根本没证据是否免疫。 按照西班牙流感,3年内来来回回杀了3次,不断变种,根本没法免疫。 虽然西班牙流感不知道什么原因最后消失了,不表示新冠病毒也会消失。 澳大利亚曾经用病毒消灭兔子,兔子死亡99%,经过60代(换成人算是1000多年),才真正对病毒免疫。
按这种理解,人类没有办法了
shutdown the world?
至少这种大规模的test可以给出数据,减少恐慌
目前的全球恐慌带来的危害,远超过了病毒本身
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-10 17:30:22  8楼
按这种理解,人类没有办法了shutdown the world? 至少这种大规模的test可以给出数据,减少恐慌 目前的全球恐慌带来的危害,远超过了病毒本身
我的理解是
actively infected指有症状
其余的是没症状-至少没有看过医生
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-10 17:50:32  9楼
【饮食健康】德国疫情最严重市镇抽样调查 15%居民已产生抗体2020-04-10 13:51 中新网4月10日电 据欧联社援引德国媒体报道,当地时间9日,德国研究人员发布了一项针对疫情严重地区的抽样调查中期报告。报告显示,在德国疫情严重地区,约有15%的居民已产生新冠肺炎病毒抗体。据悉,该项调查旨在了解新冠肺炎病毒传播途径和危险性。 据报道,此次抽样调查,研究人员对北威州海因斯贝格市冈格尔特市镇数百名居民进行调查分析,得出的中期报告结果显示,该市镇新冠肺炎病毒感染率大约为15%,死亡率约为0.37%。此外,大约有15%的居民已经产生了对病毒的免疫力。 负责调查的冈瑟&#8226;哈特曼研究员表示,据目前了解,产生抗体的人其免疫力有效期应在6至18个月之间。 受北威州政府委托,负责此次研究的波恩大学病毒学家亨德里克&#8226;斯特雷克教授表示,初步结果显示,只要保证卫生措施,而且市民遵守相应的行为规定,是有可能逐步放宽管制措施。 该帖荣获当日十大第5,奖励楼主10分以及15华新币,时间:2020-04-10 22:00:06。该帖荣获当日十大第4,奖励楼主12分以及18华新币,时间:2020-04-11 22:00:02。 (more...)
最后一段尤其重要
The presence of previously infected people in the community, Streeck and colleagues believe, will reduce the speed at which the virus can move in the area. They also outline a process by which social distancing can be slowly unwound, especially given hygienic measures, like handwashing, and isolating and tracking the sick. They think if people avoid getting big doses of the virus—which can happen in hospitals or via close contact with someone infected—fewer people will become severely ill, “while at the same time developing immunity” that can help finally end the outbreak.
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-10 18:58:24  10楼
对这个病毒和免疫的研究还不确定吧https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-09/coronavirus-may-reactivate-in-cured-patients-korean-cdc-says
猫死这完全不是问题啊
中国也有复阳的啊
问题在于比率机会有多大
要不就是血浆治疗
健康证书,免疫证书都错了

这样的话,就毫无办法了,只能等进化了
你说呢?

要不怎么办?
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-10 22:27:36  11楼
【饮食健康】德国疫情最严重市镇抽样调查 15%居民已产生抗体2020-04-10 13:51 中新网4月10日电 据欧联社援引德国媒体报道,当地时间9日,德国研究人员发布了一项针对疫情严重地区的抽样调查中期报告。报告显示,在德国疫情严重地区,约有15%的居民已产生新冠肺炎病毒抗体。据悉,该项调查旨在了解新冠肺炎病毒传播途径和危险性。 据报道,此次抽样调查,研究人员对北威州海因斯贝格市冈格尔特市镇数百名居民进行调查分析,得出的中期报告结果显示,该市镇新冠肺炎病毒感染率大约为15%,死亡率约为0.37%。此外,大约有15%的居民已经产生了对病毒的免疫力。 负责调查的冈瑟&#8226;哈特曼研究员表示,据目前了解,产生抗体的人其免疫力有效期应在6至18个月之间。 受北威州政府委托,负责此次研究的波恩大学病毒学家亨德里克&#8226;斯特雷克教授表示,初步结果显示,只要保证卫生措施,而且市民遵守相应的行为规定,是有可能逐步放宽管制措施。 该帖荣获当日十大第5,奖励楼主10分以及15华新币,时间:2020-04-10 22:00:06。该帖荣获当日十大第4,奖励楼主12分以及18华新币,时间:2020-04-11 22:00:02。 (more...)
也许我还真的有抗体了
我家已经有两个由于接触confirmed case被隔离的
本人是接触第一批的,另一个的隔离刚结束
我们出去就从来不戴口罩啊
关在家就可以自然免疫?温室里的花朵啊。
我坚决相信恐慌的危害超过病毒本身
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-10 22:28:27  12楼
也许我还真的有抗体了我家已经有两个由于接触confirmed case被隔离的 本人是接触第一批的,另一个的隔离刚结束 我们出去就从来不戴口罩啊 关在家就可以自然免疫?温室里的花朵啊。 我坚决相信恐慌的危害超过病毒本身
再发一次

The presence of previously infected people in the community, Streeck and colleagues believe, will reduce the speed at which the virus can move in the area. They also outline a process by which social distancing can be slowly unwound, especially given hygienic measures, like handwashing, and isolating and tracking the sick. They think if people avoid getting big doses of the virus—which can happen in hospitals or via close contact with someone infected—fewer people will become severely ill, “while at the same time developing immunity” that can help finally end the outbreak.
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-10 22:58:58  13楼
呆在家里就是恐慌?呵呵 钢筋本筋厉害了 在家呆着想吃吃想喝喝,没事刷手机还有钱拿别提多舒服呢
这个真是偷换概念了
隔离没有问题 ,也是正确的决定
恐慌是指很多人惶惶不可终日,好像一定要坡县成完全没有病例一样
现在只有4个国家还没有病例,也门也中了
怎么办,回中国?中国还说无症状的都传染。
已经是地球村里,认真对待,各安天命。
整天抱怨有p用?抵抗力反而下降
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-10 23:03:42  14楼
大家不是极左就是极右啊
一路走来始终如一
如果扼杀在萌芽状态,是上策
既然错过了,失控了,就只能靠自然免疫,人类净化
完全不接触,不是办法
现在南北半球都有了,4季全天候,没有办法完全靠关在家里杀死和对抗病毒。
看看全球各自为政可以坚持多久吧?
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作者:笑天 (等级:8 - 融会贯通,发帖:9295) 发表:2020-04-11 17:42:54  15楼
假如用钱交换,去感染(然后所谓免疫)估计10最多10万新币,你就答应了吧。 要是我,至少100万新币才考虑。
呵呵 果然天子民一切用钱衡量
大声的说,区区一百万新币,我真看不上
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