Is there a more specific breakdown of the results?
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作者:marauder (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:97) 发表:2007-09-09 02:14:56  楼主  关注此帖
成绩报告:甘榜格南8分获得冠军!哥南亚逸A,飞鹰,白沙东5分并列第二。成绩报告:甘榜格南8分获得冠军!哥南亚逸A,飞鹰,白沙东5分并列第二。 甘榜格南 8分 哥南亚逸A 5分 飞鹰 5分 白沙东 5分 哥南亚逸B 4分 碧山3分 感谢棋儒先生的组织和总裁判工作。
Is there a more specific breakdown of the results?
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作者:marauder (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:97) 发表:2007-09-09 12:49:08  2楼
Players for more than a team ... my personal view From the warm-up match below and this friendly match held on the same day, noticed that a few players played for more than a team, although it is ok for individual player, but may be not very good especially for team friendly match. As mentioned by the name "team friendly match", the main purpose is for players of different teams to know each other so that stronger relationship could be built between teams over times, we should try to fill up with own members so that everyone knows the members of other teams. If we treat the friendly match as another "serious" competition (winning is the only purpose) and formed the team with players from all over the places, the team is just in "NAME" and it is meaningless. Even for "Serious" competition, we should have a plan to build up the skill of our players over times but not to form team with whatever good players over Singapore or even overseas. If not, the Champion is also just in NAME and only valid during the (more...)
My personal reply (does not represent the opinion and ideals of my club)
Boon Lay CC Chinese Chess club did not encourage our players to play for another team. On the other hand, we also did not strongly enforce the rule of them not to play for another team as we believe it is the player's freedom to decide for himself.

As the players who played for 2 diferent teams are youth players. They still do not have the idea of TEAM and CLUB embedded strongly in them yet. To them, they just want to play chess, wherever there are opportunities. Well, maybe it's not gd for team and club policies. But if we step back and look from a wider perspective, what they are doing is good for the development of chess in Singapore. This is because they will be the next batch of potential players to represent Singapore and to bring chinese chess to a higher level. Personally, as much as I do not like them representing other teams, I feel bad in hampering their progress as well.

What is causing this problem might be that there are too few chess competition and opportunities in Singapore for these young players to play serious chess. This causes them to find ways and means to play more Chess competition whenever possible.

Also, these young players are not the top players in Singapore. Thus, I do not believe the team that they played for are trying to win with them.

As for your issue of good foreign players, it is a hotly debatable one. My own feeling is that inviting them over gives the other Singaporeans from other teams the opportunities to play with these top players for free. I do see anything bad about it. Well, there are of course more to be considered than to accept this simplistic view.

But maybe it is time we should look beyond the strict confinements of the idea of a TEAM and CLUB to consider that for the greater good of Chinese Chess development in Singapore.
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作者:marauder (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:97) 发表:2007-09-09 12:59:06  3楼
Players for more than a team ... my personal view From the warm-up match below and this friendly match held on the same day, noticed that a few players played for more than a team, although it is ok for individual player, but may be not very good especially for team friendly match. As mentioned by the name "team friendly match", the main purpose is for players of different teams to know each other so that stronger relationship could be built between teams over times, we should try to fill up with own members so that everyone knows the members of other teams. If we treat the friendly match as another "serious" competition (winning is the only purpose) and formed the team with players from all over the places, the team is just in "NAME" and it is meaningless. Even for "Serious" competition, we should have a plan to build up the skill of our players over times but not to form team with whatever good players over Singapore or even overseas. If not, the Champion is also just in NAME and only valid during the (more...)
To clarify on the 外援
I had to step out and clarify something on the 外援 for team B.

Actually, this is more of an internal training session for both teams. And since we are of the same club, there is not much of an issue of one team triumph over the other team. The main objective is to train.

As for the 外援, he is brought in only because one of our member got something cropped up at the last minute and Guowei just happen to visit our club then (due to his urge to play more chess too?). So we are rather flexible and ask him to substitute the original player.

He was not brought in to win. Please do not get the wrong idea. We were all happy with the results as all of us, (regardless team A or B, winning or losing) gained something out of it. Isn't that what Chess is all about?
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作者:marauder (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:97) 发表:2007-09-09 13:33:31  4楼
一点意见这次我们摆了一个大乌龙,实在也不好说什么。外援不外援的,涉及到棋会间的一些敏感话题,我只能以个人的身份说(官方言论让梁华平去斟酌吧),考虑到这次友谊赛兼训练赛的性质,希望大家不要太在意,大事化小,小事化了吧。
Maybe my choice of words are wrong
I apologise any wrong issues regarding my choice of words that might offend anybody or any clubs.

I will try to use a less offensive word.

Also, please note I am also not the official spokesman of my club. So as with the last post, what I say do not represent the club's ideals and opinions.
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作者:marauder (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:97) 发表:2007-09-10 10:25:54  5楼
I noticed that she played 5 games on Friday night ....of course, these 5 games were played for fun by the 4 players (she and 3 SIXGA members) (by the way, 棋人生 not in these few games) she won a SIXGA Gr 2 player for 2 games followed by won a SIXGA no-grade player for 2 games followed by lost to a SIXGA Gr 2 player for 1 game.
Does she have any title back in China?

According to what you described, I would be very interested to know how she would fare against our GM Zhang Xin Huan, who I think is still the best female chess player in Singapore.
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作者:marauder (等级:2 - 初出茅庐,发帖:97) 发表:2007-09-10 13:52:35  6楼
to share some personal views on good overseas players I have clarified on "Team Friendly Match" in a separate note. Regarding the issue of good overseas players, I wish to share some personal views here. When I mentioned overseas players, actually I am referring to those coming to Singapore for a few days to represent a local team in a team competition. For those holding work permits or students passes etc, I am considering them as players in Singaspore for the duration when they are working or studying in Singapore. Definitely, they help to improve the skill levels of Singaporeans during their stays. For those overseas players with a few days stay in Singapore, their main goal is to win in a team competition sponsored and it is the only expectation from their sponsor(s). It has no or little improvement to the skill levels of their other Singapore team members during the stay. I do not think their sponsors will "invite them over to give the other Singaporeans from other teams the opportunities to play w (more...)
My opinion (from the player's perspective)
There is always a cloud of pessimism over the issue of bringing in top players from overseas to represent their teams.

I would also like to clarify further on my statement "invite them over to give the other Singaporeans from other teams the opportunities to play with these top players for free." What I am trying to say here is that Singaporeans from other teams have a chance to play with this top players (free of charge) during the competition without the need to be able to represent Singapore. How many people have the chance to represent Singapore, when the players representating Singapore, sad to say, are almost always the same few. This encounters with these top players, despite being only a game, our players will still learn from such encounters! I am confident that the players who had played Wan Chun Lin, Zhao Nu Quan or any other GM would have agree with me. Furthermore, it is the team that is trying to win that is spending the money.

For me, I would be very happy to be able to just play one game with Hu Rong Hua, or Liu Da Hua, or any other top ranking players overseas. I doubt many would be able to have such a chance.

So the team that recruited the help of a grandmaster might win the championship, but did the other teams totally lose out too? No... The other teams benefit from such an arrangement that their players had experience playing with such top hands. Also, they also have a close encounter to experience how these top hands handle chess positions and games. When should we ponder more in a game? When should we not? These are all valuable lessons to be learnt. This are not to be learnt from any chess books that are on the market. Of course, we will learn much more if we are able to communicate with the player during or after the games.

Furthermore, when a top player visit Singapore, the team that recruited his help also benefit. The players from that team can ask more specific questions personally and challenge him as well.

Therefore, I am strongly in disagreement with your statement that "It has no or little improvement to the skill levels of their other Singapore team members during the stay." Unless that top player invited only play in competitions and no other games during his stay here, then the benefits would be minimal but still existing.

I am also sure that many of the players have experience a bottleneck in their chess after some time. And it is hard to have a breakthrough. Perhaps the introduction of these top players could have sparked a breakthrough in some of these players if they have the chance to match up in the competition? This would be invaluable and would worth all the money spent!

You have also mentioned 黄少龙教授(中国象棋大师) and 言穆江(中国象棋大师). Yes, I have to agree that they are very nice people and have contribute a lot to try and improve the levels of chess wherever they go. Furthermore, they are heavily involved in the coaching of players. However, they are already not involved in competitive chess. Their level might be able to help the average players like me a lot. But to those strong Singaporean players, these masters' standards might not be enough for them to benefit much too. If we can get the whole of any of the existing team in the China League to just visit Singapore for a few days, That would be marvellous.

Let us also look at other board game in Singapore. From what I know, the team that represent Singapore for othello world cup last year included a former world champion from Japan. And the Singapore team got 3rd overall last year. Though the ranking is mostly due to that Japanese player, our players would have benefit much from fighting alongside with him. This is something not to be measured plainly by money.

In sum, those teams that valued so much of prestige and the champion would have gotten what they wanted from hiring these top hands. But they are also indirectly providing the chance for the other players to play with these people. There are lots of things to ponder about when considering whether or not to include foreign talents within the Singapore team, but I would still prefer to have a more positive attitude on this issue. And of course, this is the player's perspective. Sponsors almost always have to weigh amongst lots of factors before making a decision. The most important thing is where the sponsor's objective lies - the champion or the development of chess in Singapore...
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