After LEH & ML, now what? (1)(ºÜÍíÁË£¬µ«Ç°Ã汻һЩÊÂÇé³³ÐÑ£¬Ë¯²»×Å£¬¾Íдµã¶«Î÷°É¡£)
ÌâÄ¿£ºAfter LEH & ML, now what£¿
À×ÂüµÄµ¹±Õ£¬ÃÀÁÖµÄ×ÔÂô£¬¾ÓÈ»ÔÚͬһÌì·¢Éú¡£ÕâÑù´óµÄͶÐеÄÆƲú£¨ÃÀ¹ú£¬ÉõÖÁÊÀ½çÀúÊ·ÉÏ×î´óÆƲú°¸£©·¢ÉúµÄ¼¸ÂÊ£¬Ó¦¸ÃÔÚ10µÄ¸º¶àÉٴη½£¿ÕâÑù´óµÄÒøÐм沢°¸£¨ÃÀ¹úµÚÒ»´óÏû·ÑÒøÐÐÓëµÚ¶þ´óͶÐУ©£¬·¢ÉúµÄ¼¸ÂÊÓÖÊÇ10µÄ¸º¶àÉٴη½£¿Á½¼þÊÂÇ飬ÔÚÇ°ºó1¸öСʱÄÚ·¢Éú£¬ÓÖÊÇÔÚʲôÊýÁ¿¼¶ÉÏ£¿Ã»ÓÐÈËÄܹÀËãÁË¡£
¾ÍÏñÎÒÃǼǵÃ30Äê´úµÄ´óÏôÌõÒ»Ñù£¬°ÙÄêÖ®ºóµÄÈËÃÇÒ²»á¼ÇµÃ2008ÄêµÄ½ðÈÚΣ»ú¡£¾ÍÏñÎÒÃǼǵÃ2001£9£11Õâ¸öÊýǧÈËÉ¥Éú¡¢ÊÀ½ç¾ÖÊÆÖØÐÂÏ´ÅÆ¿ªÊ¼µÄÄÇÌìÒ»Ñù£¬°ÙÄêÖ®ºóµÄÈËÃÇÒ²»á¼ÇµÃ2008£9£15£¬Õâ¸ö½ðÈڽ翪ʼÖØÐÂÏ´ÅƵÄÈÕ×Ó¡£
µ±ÎÒ×îÏÈ¿´µ½Õâ¸öÏûÏ¢µÄʱºò£¬Ê×ÏÈÊÇÕ𾪡£Õð¾ªÕâÑùÅÓ´óµÄÆóÒµ¾ÍÈç´ËºäÈ»µ¹Ëú£¬¾ÍÈç´ËÓÉbloombergÐû²¼ÁËËü×ßÍê158ÄêµÄÀúÊ·¡£ËæÖ®¶øÀ´µÄ£¬Êǵ£ÐÄ¡£³ÇÃÅʧ»ðÑê¼°³ØÓ㣬ËäȻûÓÐÔÚLEH»òMLÖй¤×÷£¬µ«ÊÇͬÔÚ½ðÈÚÐÐÒµÖУ¬ÉîÉîµÄ¸Ðµ½Î´À´1£¬2Äê²»ºÃ×ß¡£ÔÙËæÖ®¶øÀ´µÄ£¬ÊÇÉËÐÄ¡£LEHºÍML£¬¶¼ÓÐÎÒµÄͬѧ/ѧ³¤ÔÚ£¬ËäȻ֪µÀÈûÎÌʧÂíÑÉÖª·Ç¸££¬µ«ÒÀȻΪËûÃÇʧȥһ¸öÕâÑùµÄƽ̨¶øÄѹý¡£
ÇéÐ÷ÊǸ´ÔӵĶàÔªµÄ£¬ÒòΪÎÒÃǶ¼²»ÊǾø¶ÔÀíÐԵĶ¯Îï¡£µ«ÔÚÕâÑù´óµÄʼþÖ®ºó£¬½ÓÏÂÀ´ÊÇʲô£¿ÊÀ½ç»¹»áÔõÑùת¶¯£¿ÎÒÃÇÓÖ²»µÃ²»ÀíÐÔ¶Ô´ý¡£
ÊÕÊ°ÐÄÇ飬ÒÔÏÂÊÇÎÒ¶Ô¡°ºóÀ×Âü£ÃÀÁÖ¡±Ê±´úµÄ·ÖÎö¡£ÖªÊ¶¼ûʶ¶¼ÓÐÏÞ£¬»¶Ó´ó¼ÒÌÖÂÛ/Åõ³¡/ÅÄש¡£
´Ó¹ú¼ÒÀ´¿´£¬Õâ´ÎµÄcredit crisis£¬ÊÇÃû¸±Æäʵ¶ÔÃÀ¹ú¹ú¼Ò¼°½ðÈÚÊг¡creditµÄÒ»³¡crisis¡£¾¼ÃÉÏ£¬ÃÀ¹úËðʧÁ˶à¼ÒÇ¿ÓÐÁ¦µÄÒøÐС¢½ðÈÚ»ú¹¹¼°ÔÝʱÎÞ·¨Í³¼ÆµÄbook value¡£ÕþÖÎÉÏ£¬¹ú¼ÊͶ×ÊÕ߶ÔÃÀ¹úÊг¡»úÖÆ£¬Í¶ÐлúÖÆ¿ªÊ¼²úÉúÖÊÒÉ£¬ÕâÒ»µã¿ÉÒÔ´ÓÃÀ¹ú¹ú¼Òծȯ£¨T Bill£©ÆÀ¼¶Ï½µ¿´³ö¡£¶øÕâÑùµÄÖÊÒÉ£¬½«´ßÉúеÄÊг¡»úÖÆ¡£
´ÓÊг¡À´¿´£¬subprimeÓÉծȯÊг¡(debt market)µÄж¡MBS£¨mortgage backed securities£©¶øÆ𣬽ø¶øÇ£³¶ÁËծȯÊг¡£¬È»ºó²¨¼°¹ÉƱÊг¡¼°¸÷ÑÜÉúÆ·Êг¡¡£Õ®È¯Êг¡£¬ÕâλÔÚͶ×ÊÊг¡ÖÐÒ»Ïò±»ÊÓΪ·çÏսϵͻر¨ÂÊÒ²½ÏµÍµÄ±£±¾¹¤¾ß£¬¾ÓȻͱ³öÕâô´ó¨×Ó¡£µÈ´ó¼Ò°Ñ¨×Ó²¹ÍêÁË£¬¾ÍÒªÖØÐÂÉóÊÓÕâ¸ö½ðÈÚÊг¡µÄ½Ïµ×²ã½¨Öþ¡£¶øÉóÊӵĽá¹û£¬¾ÍÊǶÔÕâ¸öÊг¡£¬¼°ÆäÏà¹ØÊг¡×ö³öÕþ²ßÉϵģ¬Í¶×ʲßÂÔÉϵģ¬»òÕß¼à¹ÜÖƶÈÉϵĵ÷Õû¡£ÕâÒ²½«´ßÉúеÄÊг¡»úÖÆ¡£
´ÓÊг¡²ÎÓëÕßÀ´¿´£¬µ¹±ÕµÄ¡¢×ÔÂôµÄ¡¢±»Êչܵĸ÷¼Ò½ðÈÚ»ú¹¹³Ðµ£×ÅMBS´Ó·¢Ðе½³ÐÏúµ½½»Ò×µ½³ÖÓеÄÿһ¸ö»·½Ú¡£ÏÖÔÚ£¬´û¿îÈËûǮ»¹Ç®ÁË£¬Õ®È¯³ÖÓÐÈË¿ªÊ¼ÊÜËð£¬Õ®È¯³ÖÓÐÈËÊÜËð£¬Ó°ÏìÐÂծȯ·¢ÐУ¬Õ®È¯³ÐÏúÉÌ¡¢·¢ÐÐÉÌ¡¢½»Ò×ÉÌÒÀ´ÎÊÜËð¡£ÔÚÕâÒ»¸ùÉþ×ÓÉϵÄËĸöÂìòÆ£¬×îÖÕ¶¼±»Ç°ÃæµÄ³ÓíȸøÍÏÁËÏÂÈ¥¡£
˵µ½ÕâÀ¿ÉÒÔsummerizeһϣºÃÀ¹ú³öÁËÎÊÌ⣬ÊÇÒòΪÆä½ðÈÚÊг¡£»½ðÈÚÊг¡³öÁËÎÊÌ⣬ÊÇÒòΪÆäÊг¡²ÎÓëÕߣ»Êг¡²ÎÓëÕß³öÁËÎÊÌ⣬ÊÇÒòΪ´û¿îÈËÎÞ·¨»¹Õ®¡£ÄÇ´û¿îÈËÓÖÊÇÒòΪʲô³öÁËÎÊÌâÄØ£¿
£¨Î´ÍêÒ»¶¨Ðø£©[monk (9-16 2:11, Long long ago)]
[ ´«Í³°æ |
sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]1Â¥
˶ÔͶ×ÊÃÀ¹ú½µµÍÁËÐÅÐÄ£¿[ellinlin (9-16 8:32, Long long ago)] [ ´«Í³°æ | sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]2Â¥
´û¿îÈ˵ij¬Ç°Ïû·Ñ£¬ÐÅ´ûµÄÎÞÏÞÅòÕÍ¡£¡£¡£µ«Õâ²»ÊÇ´û¿îÈËµÄ´í£¬ÕâÊǽðÈÚ¼à¹ÜµÄ´í£¡ »ª¶û½ÖµÄ´í£¡ ´óÅ£ÃÇµÄ´í£¡£¡£¡ ´û¿îÈËÊÇÔÚ±»ÀûÓÕµÄÇé¿öϲÅÕâô×öµÄ :$
²»¹ý´ó¼Ò²»ÓýôÕÅ£¬¹ÉÊÐÐèÒªÈçLEH&MLÕâÖÖÈÃÈ˳¹µ×¾øÍûµÄ»µÏûÏ¢´òµ½µ×È¥¡£¡£¡£
[aspernet (9-16 9:02, Long long ago)]
[ ´«Í³°æ |
sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]3Â¥
(ÒýÓà aspernet:´û¿îÈ˵ij¬Ç°Ïû·Ñ£¬ÐÅ´ûµÄÎÞÏÞÅòÕÍ¡£¡£¡£µ«Õâ²»ÊÇ´û¿îÈËµÄ´í£¬ÕâÊǽðÈÚ¼à¹ÜµÄ´í£¡ »ª¶û½ÖµÄ´í£¡ ´óÅ£ÃÇµÄ´í£¡£¡£¡ ´û¿îÈËÊÇÔÚ±»ÀûÓÕµÄÇé¿...)heheÄÇΪʲôÃÀ¹úÈË»áÌáÇ°Ïû·ÑÄØ£¿»ª¶û½ÖµÄ¼à¹ÜÓÖΪºÎ»áϽµÄØ£¿
ÎÊÌâµÄ¸ùÔ´ÊÇʲô£¿[monk (9-16 9:52, Long long ago)]
[ ´«Í³°æ |
sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]4Â¥
(ÒýÓà monk:heheÄÇΪʲôÃÀ¹úÈË»áÌáÇ°Ïû·ÑÄØ£¿»ª¶û½ÖµÄ¼à¹ÜÓÖΪºÎ»áϽµÄØ£¿ ÎÊÌâµÄ¸ùÔ´ÊÇʲô£¿)ÎÒÖ»ÖªµÀÇ®²»ÊÇÍò¶ñÖ®Ô´ :D[parrot (9-16 9:54, Long long ago)] [ ´«Í³°æ | sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]5Â¥
(ÒýÓà parrot:ÎÒÖ»ÖªµÀÇ®²»ÊÇÍò¶ñÖ®Ô´ :D)Õâ¸ö¡£¡£¡£¡£ºÃ°É¡£¡£¡£¡£[monk (9-16 10:07, Long long ago)] [ ´«Í³°æ | sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]6Â¥
£¨Î´ÍêÒ»¶¨Ðø£© :=)[Climbing (9-16 14:51, Long long ago)] [ ´«Í³°æ | sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]7Â¥
(ÒýÓà monk:heheÄÇΪʲôÃÀ¹úÈË»áÌáÇ°Ïû·ÑÄØ£¿»ª¶û½ÖµÄ¼à¹ÜÓÖΪºÎ»áϽµÄØ£¿ ÎÊÌâµÄ¸ùÔ´ÊÇʲô£¿)ÎÒ¾õµÃÊÇÌ°°É¡£¡£´û¿îÈËÊÇÏëÓкûÂò·¿×Ó¡£¡£ µ±È»²»°üÀ¨Âú×ãÉݳÞÓû¶øÓñ¬ÐÅÓÿ¨µÄ¡£¼à¹ÜϽµÎÒ¾õµÃÊÇΪÁË´Ù½ø¾¼Ã·±ÈٵļÙÏó°É¡£¡£ ÒøÐÐÓÐÇ®¾Í׬¿©£¬¸ß·çÏո߻ر¨Âï¡£¡£ ¸öÈËdz¼û[ÈË··×Ó (9-16 21:27, Long long ago)] [ ´«Í³°æ | sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]8Â¥
After LEH & ML, now what? (2)£¨ÓÖµ½ÁËÁ賿£¬ÓÖµ½ÁËÎÒд×÷µÄʱ¼ä¡££©
ÃÀ¹úµÄ½ðÈڷ籩£¬¿ªÊ¼Óеã·ç±©µÄÒâ˼ÁË¡£Ç£³¶µÄ·¶Î§Ô½À´Ô½¹ã£¬±»Ëüɨ¹ýµÄÁìÓò£¬²Ðש°ÜÍߣ¬ÂúÄ¿²×ðê¡£AIGÕâ¼ÒÈ«Çò±£ÏÕÒµ¡¢»ù½ð¹ÜÀíÒµºÍ×ãÇò¶ÓÔÞÖúÒµµÄÇ̳þ£¬¾ÓȻҲҪÔÚɽķ´óÊåÀéÏÂɪɪ·¢¶¶£¬¿É̾¿É̾¡£
²»¹ý£¬ºÜ¶àÈËΪLEH±§²»Æ½¡£ÎªÉ¶Ç°ÓнӹÜÁ½·¿£¬ºóÓдû¿îAIG£¨Ò»¸öÆæ¹ÖµÄconsideration£¬ÎªÊ²Ã´¿ÉÒÔÓôû¿î»»shareholdingÄØ£¿ÊÇpledge against the stakeÂð£¿Çë¸ßÈËÖ¸½Ì£©£¬¶À¶À©ÁËLEHÄØ£¿Æäʵ£¬¾ÍÏñ±£¶ûÉһֱǿµ÷µÄ£¬ÃÀ¹úÕþ¸®ÆäʵҲ²»Ô¸ÒâÌËÕâÌË»ëË®¡£µ«£¬½èÓÃijÀÏ×ܵÄÐÎÈݹúÄÚÂ¥ÊеÄÒ»¾ä»°µÄ¸ñʽ£ºÊµÔÚÊÇÒòΪÃÀ¹úµÄ½ðÈÚÒµ°ó¼ÜÁËÕþ¸®£¬Õþ¸®²Å²»µÃ²»ÄÃÇ®ÊêÈË¡£¿ÉϧµÄÊÇ£¬LEH°óµÄ»¹²»¹»´ó²»¹»ÉÃÀ¹úÕþ¸®ÈÌÒ»ÈÌ£¬¾Í»ÓÀáÕ¶ÂíÚÕÁË£¨ÊÔÏ뵱ʱÈôÊÇÁõºóÖ÷¶ªµÄ½Öͤ£¬¹À¼Æ°¢ÁÁ»¹Òª×Ô¼ºÏòÁõÇ°Ö÷¸º¾£Çë×ïÄØ£©¡£
ÓÐÈËÓÖÎÊ£¬LEH»¹²»´ó£¿µ±È»£¬LEHÊÇ´óµÄ£¬µ«ÄÇÊǶÔÎÒÃÇÕâЩÉý¶·Ð¡ÃñÀ´Ëµ¡£ºáÏò±È½ÏһϣºÊ×ÏÈ£¬AIGµÄ¹ÉƱÊýΪԼ26.9ÒÚ£¬½üÒ»Äê×î¸ß¼ÛΪ70¶àÃÀÔª£¬¶ÔÓ¦µÄÒ»Äê×î¸ßÊÐֵΪ½ü2000ÒÚÃÀÔª¡£LEH¹ÉƱÊýΪ6.89ÒÚ£¬½üÒ»Äê×î¸ß¼ÛΪ67.73ÃÀÔª£¬¶ÔÓ¦µÄÒ»Äê×î¸ßÊÐֵΪ½ü500ÒÚÃÀÔª¡£Æä´Î£¬AIG×÷ΪÈËÊÙ±£ÏÕÀϴ󣬻ù±¾Éϵ£±£/¹ÜÀí×Åÿ¸öÃÀ¹úÈË£¬ºÍºÜ´óÒ»²¿·ÖÅ·ÖÞÈ˵ÄÍËÐݽðµÈ£¬ËüÒªÊÇ¿ą̊£¬¹À¼ÆÃÀ¹ú°æµÄ³ÂʤÎâ¹ã¾ÍÒò´Ëµ®ÉúÁË¡£ËùÒÔ£¬AIG°óµÄ¹»´ó¹»Éî¡£2°ÙÄê»ùÒµ£¬»»ÄĸöÃÀ¹ú×ÜͳҲ²»¸Ò²»¾È£¬ËùÒÔÖ»ºÃ¹Ô¹ÔÄóöÄÉË°ÈËδÀ´µÄѪº¹Ç®µ±Êê½ðÁË¡£
·ç±©Ô½¹ÎÔ½´ó£¬ÎÒÃÇÕâÖÖϺÃ×£¬Ö»ºÃ¶ãÔÚ×Ô¼ºµÄ°ì¹«ÊÒÀÆíµ»ÔçÈÕ·çƽÀ˾²£¬´óµØ»Ø´º£¬IB»Ø»ê¡£Ò»±ßÆíµ»£¬ÎÒºÍͬÊÂÃÇÒ²ÔÚ²»Í£µÄÏë¸ãÇå³þ£¬Õⳡ½ÙÄѴӺζøÀ´£¬ÓÖ½«ÏòºÎ´¦È¥¡£
¾ÍÏñÉÏ´ÎÎʵ½µÄ£¬Õâ´ÎΣ»ú£¬Ö÷ÒªÊÇÒòΪ½è¿îÈËÎÞÁ¦»¹Õ®£¬µ«ÎªÊ²Ã´½è¿îÈËÎÞ·¨»¹Õ®ÄØ£¿ÕâÀï¿ÉÒÔ·ÖΪÁ½¸öÔÒò£¬ÆäÒ»£¬ÊÇÒòΪËûÃǽèÁËÌ«¶à£»Æä¶þ£¬ÊÇÒòΪËûÃÇ׬µÄÌ«ÉÙ¡£Ç°ÃæÄǸöÔÒòºÃ¶àÅóÓÑÌáµ½ÁË£¬¾ÍÏÈ¿´¿´Ëü¡£
Ϊʲô½èÌ«¶à£¿Æäʵ×÷Ϊ»ªÈË£¬ÎÒʼÖÕºÜÄÑÀí½âÃÀ¹úÈ˵ÄÏû·Ñ¹Û¡£²»¹ý£¬ÕâÊÇÒ»¸ö´ÓÉÏÖÁϵÄÎÊÌâ¡£ÃÀ¹úÕþ¸®¾Í¿¿×ÅÿÄê¶àÉÙ¸öbillionµÄtreasury bill£¬½èÃ÷ÌìµÄÇ®£¬²¹×òÌìµÄ¶´¡£¾Í´Ë£¬ÎÒµÄͬÊÂÎÊÎÒ£¬Öйú·¢ÐйúÕ®Âð£¿ÎÒ»ØÏëÁ˺þ㬲»¿Ï¶¨µÄ˵£¬ºÃÏñºÜ¶àÄêÇ°Óйý°É£¬×î½üÒ»´Î¾ÍÊÇΪÁË×齨ÖÐͶ£¬ÆäËüµÄ¾ÍûÌý˵ÁË¡£µÄÈ·£¬ÖйúÕþ¸®Ã¿Äê²ÆÕþÓ¯ÓàÒ²ÊǺöà¸öbillion£¬ºÎ±Ø½èÇ®ÄØ£¿ÄѵÀͨ¹ý·¢·Åcoupon£¬Ìá¸ß¹úÃñ´ýÓöÂð£¿Ïà·´£¬ÔÚÃÀ¹úÕâÑùÒ»¸ö³¬Ç°Ïû·Ñ½þ͸µ½Ö÷ÐĹǵĹú¶È£¬¿ÉÄܺÜÄѲ»ÊÜ´«È¾¡£
ͬʱ£¬ÃÀ¹úÈ˽èǮ̫¶à£¬ÒøÐеġ°´ÙÏú¡±²»µÃ²»ËµÊǹ¦²»¿Éû¡£ÕâÀïÆäʵÊÇÒ»¸öÀûÒæÁ´µÄ¹Øϵ£ºÒ»°ãµÄÉÌÒµÒøÐÐÒª¿ªÔ´£¬ËùÒÔÀ©´óÁËÐÅÓýÓÊÜ·¶Î§£¨´Î´ûµÄ³öÏÖ£©£¬Ëõ¼õÁËÐÅÓÃÉóºË³ÌÐò£¨×Ô¶¯ÉóºË£¬30ÃëÎÞÍ´¸ßЧ£©¡£ÕâЩÒøÐÐÔÚÕâЩ´û¿îÖÐÊÕÈ¡½Ï¸ßµÄÀûÏ¢£¬´Ó¶ø»ñÀû¡£½ÓÏÂÀ´£¬ÉÌÒµÒøÐÐÒª½«·çÏÕתÒÆ£¬ËùÒÔƸÇëͶ×ÊÒøÐлòÁ½·¿´ò°ü£¬½«ÕâЩ¸ß·çÏյĴû¿î×é³ÉMBS»òCDO¡£ÕâЩͶ×ÊÒøÐкÍÁ½·¿£¨Õæ˳¿Ú£©ÔÚ´ò°üµÄ¹ý³ÌÖÐÊÕÈ¡¸ß¶î°ü×°·Ñ£¬´ÓÖлñÀû¡£ÎªÁËÌá¸ßÕâЩͶ×ʲúÆ·µÄÐÅÓõȼ¶£¬Í¶ÐÐÏò±£ÏÕ¹«Ë¾¹ºÂòdefault insurance¡£±£ÏÕ¹«Ë¾£¨ÒÔ¼°ºóÃæµÄÔÙ±£ÏÕ¹«Ë¾£©µã×ÅÿÔ½øÕʵÄpremium£¬Ò²ÊÇϲЦÑÕ¿ª¡£ÕâЩͶ×ʲúÆ·À´µ½Êг¡ÉÏ£¬brokerÃÇ´óÁ¦ÍÆÏú£¬×¬È¡Öнé·Ñ£»ÕâЩ²úÆ·µÄ³ÖÓÐÕßΪÁËhedgeµôһЩrisk£¬ÏòͶÐлòhedge fund¹ºÂòһЩÑÜÉúÆ·£¨ÊÇinterest rate swapsÂð?Çë¸ßÈËÖ¸½Ì£©£¬ÄÇcost×ÔȻҲÉÙ²»Á˵ġ£ËµÀ´ËµÈ¥½ðÈÚ½çÀïÃæÀÏÀÏÉÙÉÙ¶¼·Öµ½ÁËÒ»±¸þ£¬¶ø³õ³¢ÌðÍ·Ôõ»á¾Í´Ë°ÕÐÝ£¿ËùÒÔÕâ¸öÊг¡Ô½À´Ô½´ó£¬Ñ©ÇòÖÕÓÚ¹öµ½ÁËÈκÎÒ»¼Ò½ðÈÚ»ú¹¹¶¼ÎÞ·¨³ÐÊܵĵز½¡£
¹éÄÉһϣ¬ÔÚÃÀ¹úÎÄ»¯µÄÓ°ÏìÏ£¬ºÍÔÚ×ʱ¾¼ÒΪÁË×·ÖðÀûÒæ¶ø·Å×ݵÄÍƶ¯Ï£¬ÃÀ¹úÈ˽èÁËÌ«¶àÁËÇ®¡£
Æäʵ£¬ÉÏÃæÄÇÒ»¾äµ¥¶ÀÊDz»³ÉÁ¢µÄ¡£Ê²Ã´ÊÇÌ«¶à£¿ÒÔʲôΪ±ê×¼£¬ÒÔʲôΪ±È½Ï£¿ÕâÀ¡°Ì«¶à¡±ÊÇÓë½è¿îÈËÊÕÈëµÄ¡°Ì«ÉÙ¡±ÊÇÏà¶Ô³öÏֵġ£ÄÇÃÀ¹ú´Î´û½è¿îÈËÕæµÄ׬µÃÌ«ÉÙÂð£¿ÎªÊ²Ã´Ì«ÉÙÄØ£¿
£¨Î´ÍêÒ»¶¨Ðø£©
[monk (9-18 1:56, Long long ago)]
[ ´«Í³°æ |
sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]9Â¥
(ÒýÓà monk:After LEH & ML, now what? (2)£¨ÓÖµ½ÁËÁ賿£¬ÓÖµ½ÁËÎÒд×÷µÄʱ¼ä¡££© ÃÀ¹úµÄ½ðÈڷ籩£¬¿ªÊ¼Óеã·ç±©µÄÒâ˼ÁË¡£Ç£³¶µÄ·¶Î§Ô½À´Ô½¹ã£¬±»Ë...)ÕâÊÇÎÒ×Ô¼ºµÄһЩ¼òµ¥µÄÏë·¨£¬Ï£Íû¸÷λָÕý±¾Éí¶ÔÓÚ½ðÈÚ»¹Ã»ÓгÔ͸£¬¾¼ÃÒ²ÖµÉϹý2¸ömudole¡£¿ÉÄÜÀïÃæÓкܶàÓ×Öɵĵط½£¬Ï£ÍûÒ²»¶Ó´ó¼ÒÖ¸Õý¡¢ÌÖÂÛ¡£[monk (9-18 2:03, Long long ago)] [ ´«Í³°æ | sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]10Â¥
(ÒýÓà monk:ÕâÊÇÎÒ×Ô¼ºµÄһЩ¼òµ¥µÄÏë·¨£¬Ï£Íû¸÷λָÕý±¾Éí¶ÔÓÚ½ðÈÚ»¹Ã»ÓгÔ͸£¬¾¼ÃÒ²ÖµÉϹý2¸ömudole¡£¿ÉÄÜÀïÃæÓкܶàÓ×Öɵĵط½£¬Ï£ÍûÒ²»¶Ó´ó¼ÒÖ...)Ä㻹ÊǶà˯˯¾õ°É¡£¡£¡£mudole ÊÇʲôÒâ˼°¡¡£:p[parrot (9-18 4:41, Long long ago)] [ ´«Í³°æ | sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]11Â¥
(ÒýÓà monk:After LEH & ML, now what? (2)£¨ÓÖµ½ÁËÁ賿£¬ÓÖµ½ÁËÎÒд×÷µÄʱ¼ä¡££©
ÃÀ¹úµÄ½ðÈڷ籩£¬¿ªÊ¼Óеã·ç±©µÄÒâ˼ÁË¡£Ç£³¶µÄ·¶Î§Ô½À´Ô½¹ã£¬±»Ë...)ÆäʵӦ¸Ã˵ÊÇ´´ÔìµÄ²Æ¸»Ì«ÉÙ£¬¶ø²»ÊÇ׬µÄǮ̫ÉÙÇë²ÎÕÕAijµÄ´ó×÷£ºhttp://v15.huasing.org/wap/xbbs.php?B=147_11082069
ËùÒÔÃ×¹úÔËÓõÄÊÇÇ¿µÁÂß¼£¬ÍÆÐеÄÊÇÇ¿µÁÕþ²ß£¬Ëµµ½Õ⣬¾ÍÇ£³¶µ½ÕþÖÎÁË£¬¿Éϧ°¡£¬ С²¼Ê²²»ÊÇÒ»¸öÕþÖÎıÂÔÌرðÇ¿µÄÈË¡£
[aspernet (9-18 9:55, Long long ago)]
[ ´«Í³°æ |
sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]12Â¥
(ÒýÓà parrot:Ä㻹ÊǶà˯˯¾õ°É¡£¡£¡£mudole ÊÇʲôÒâ˼°¡¡£:p)mudoleµÄÒâ˼ÊÇ¡£¡£¡£Òâζ×ÅÎÒµ±Ê±ÒѾ´¦ÓÚ°ëÃÎÓÎ״̬£¬Á¬Ðø´ò´íÁ½¸ö×Ö£¨»¹ÓÐÄǸö¡°Öµ¡±£Ö»£©[monk (9-18 9:55, Long long ago)] [ ´«Í³°æ | sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]13Â¥
(ÒýÓà parrot:Ä㻹ÊǶà˯˯¾õ°É¡£¡£¡£mudole ÊÇʲôÒâ˼°¡¡£:p)¶àл´óÂè¹ØÐĸм¤ÌéÁô¡£¡£¡£¡£[monk (9-18 10:24, Long long ago)] [ ´«Í³°æ | sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]14Â¥
(ÒýÓà monk:¶àл´óÂè¹ØÐĸм¤ÌéÁô¡£¡£¡£¡£)ÄãÓÖд´í×ÖÁË¡£¡£¡£»¹ÔκõÄÄ£¿¸Ð¼¤ÌéÁ÷°É£¿[parrot (9-18 10:30, Long long ago)] [ ´«Í³°æ | sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]15Â¥
(ÒýÓà monk:mudoleµÄÒâ˼ÊÇ¡£¡£¡£Òâζ×ÅÎÒµ±Ê±ÒѾ´¦ÓÚ°ëÃÎÓÎ״̬£¬Á¬Ðø´ò´íÁ½¸ö×Ö£¨»¹ÓÐÄǸö¡°Öµ¡±£Ö»£©)Õâ¸ö¹ÊʸæËßÎÒÃÇ£¬±£³Ö³ä×ãµÄ˯ÃߺÍÁ¼ºÃµÄÐÝÏ¢ºÜÖØÒªÎÒ×î½üÒ²ÒòΪƣÀÍ·¢ÉúÁ˺ܶàÔã¸âµÄÊÂÇ飬±ÈÈç¡£¡£¡£½ñÌì°ÑÊÖ»úÍü¼ÒÀïÁË¡£¡£¡£
[parrot (9-18 10:31, Long long ago)]
[ ´«Í³°æ |
sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]16Â¥
(ÒýÓà parrot:ÄãÓÖд´í×ÖÁË¡£¡£¡£»¹ÔκõÄÄ£¿¸Ð¼¤ÌéÁ÷°É£¿)en...ÔçÉÏ4µãÆðÀ´À¶Ç×Ó£¬ÆðÀ´Ö®ºóµ½ÏÖÔÚ»¹ÓеãÔΡ£¡£¡£¡£¡£ÈËÀÏÁË¡£¡£¡£[monk (9-18 12:54, Long long ago)] [ ´«Í³°æ | sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]17Â¥
(ÒýÓà aspernet:ÆäʵӦ¸Ã˵ÊÇ´´ÔìµÄ²Æ¸»Ì«ÉÙ£¬¶ø²»ÊÇ׬µÄǮ̫ÉÙÇë²ÎÕÕAijµÄ´ó×÷£ºhttp://v15.huasing.org/bbs.php?B=147_11082069 ËùÒÔÃ×¹úÔËÓõÄÊÇÇ¿µÁ...)µÄÈ·[monk (9-19 10:40, Long long ago)] [ ´«Í³°æ | sForum ][µÇ¼ºó»Ø¸´]18Â¥