(引用 kurubear:廖铭濠 supporters post here (NM))YOU ARE THE RAIN![吕大侠 (12-17 3:32, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]221楼
(引用 kurubear:Any ideas to improve the skill level of Grade B players instead ? ...I noticed as the years pass by, more and more of these play...)PRACTICE WISELY & EARNESTLY WITH PROMISING OPENING FORMATION NOT KUNDU ONES.[吕大侠 (12-17 3:39, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]222楼
could all think from the position of 胡伟良 ........
could all think from the position of 胡伟良.
From the existing rules, only Top 8 of first 7 rounds are qualified for the 3 rounds of Final regardless 卷心菜 withdraw or not. Since the rule did not talk about cases of withdraw for the 3 rounds of Final, any changes now could result in the appeal of 胡伟良.
When we introduce any change, we need to study all points.
I believe SIXGA Committee of this Singapore Open Event (Rule No. 14) has considered all points before the release of pairings for Round 8.
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Last but not least, tomorrow evening, I will go and support the lady player 陈茗芳 and forget about the above issue .....
[碧山 (12-17 6:41, Long long ago)]
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A study of Methods used in Singapore Xiangqi Open .....
A study of Methods used in Singapore Xiangqi Open .....
SIXGA may wish to conduct a review after this 2009 Singapore Open Group B 2nd Season.
Please refer to previous post below : --
Learning from the methods used in the last 5 years .......
http://v15.huasing.org/wap/xbbs.php?B=123_11199095
As indicated previously in Jun 2009, the current 7 + 3 八人淘汰 system has a critical round, i.e. Round 8, to decide all promotion cases and the recent withdrawal of 卷心菜 has generated a number of concerns.
To improve the system further, there are few alternatives : --
(1) 八人双败淘汰 -- 7 + 3 method
for this method, the player with 双败 in the last three rounds not to be promoted, in this case, if someone win with a walkover in Round 8 but having 双败 in Rounds 9 and 10 will not be promoted.
after first round
胜者组 4人 select positions 1, 2, 3 and 5
负者组 4人 select positions 4, 6, 7 and 8
Position and results
1 胜 胜 胜 胜者组
2 胜 胜 负 胜者组
3 胜 负 胜 胜者组
4 负 胜 胜
5 胜 负 负 胜者组
6 负 胜 负
7 负 负 胜
8 负 负 负
and Top 4 are promotion cases.
第三届棋总杯大马象棋精英争霸赛 .......2009年7月24日至26日
争霸赛前三轮双败淘汰赛，至少取得2胜才能踏步四强。
(2) 八人淘汰 -- 7 + 1 Method
If we wish to keep to Round 8 to decide on all promotion cases, then we can consider the method used in 2009 Vietnam Open to decide the ranking positions of 8 players in one round so as to save times for Rounds 9 and 10.
Below is a study of methods used in 2009 Vietnam Xiangqi Open
( 9+2 for Top 4 and 9 + 1 for next 8)
From the ranking list after Round 9 ....... to decide the positions for 5 to 12
the ranking list after Round 9
1 蒋 川
2 张 强
3 阮成保
4 阮黄林
5 赖李兄
6 陈正心
7 柳大华
8 陶高科
9 陈强安
10 阮武军
11 阮陈杜宁
12 蒙世行
Winning in Round 10 can move up maximum of 4 positions, in this case, quite a fair system, i.e. the performance in the past 9 rounds are considered too.
5 赖李兄 (won) -- Position 5
6 陈正心 (won) -- Position 6
7 柳大华 (Position 9)
8 陶高科 (won) -- Position 7
9 陈强安 (Position 10)
10 阮武军 (won) -- Position 8
11 阮陈杜宁 (Position 11)
12 蒙世行 (Position 12)
From this study, 陈强安 lost in Round 10. Right ? Vietnam Website did not show Round 10, 3rd Game etc for him.
May be SIXGA can study this method further for our Singapore Open since we are using 7 + 2 (9 + 2 in this system) for the Top 4, what we really want is also to pick Positions 5 to 8 for the prize giving.
In the knock out system, you need a win to move up, for the Positions 5 to 8 in Vietnam System after 9 rounds, you need a win to stay in the same positions or to move up, this is the reason for 柳大华 to move from Position 7 to Position 9 in Round 10 as he has a lost. this is also the reason for 阮武军 to move from Position 10 to Position 8 in Round 10.
and also 陶高科 from Position 8 to Position 7
陈强安 from Position 9 to Position 10.
For Positions 5 to 12, in all, only Positions 7 to 10 are affected from Round 10.
(3) 9 + 1 method instead of 7 + 3 method
For this method, to use Swiss Pairing for the first 9 rounds for all players, and Round 10 to decide on the final ranking.
either
to decide the final ranking position of Top 8, next 8, next next 8, etc so that all players are still fighting hard in their own range of 8 by using Vietnam 2009 Method (you can only move up maximum of 4 positions in this method for 8 players in one round)
or
Round 10 below as suggested previously :
1 vs 2
3 vs 4
5 vs 6
7 vs 8
9 vs 10
...
..
.
and Top 4 are promotion cases.
[碧山 (12-17 8:07, Long long ago)]
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(引用 碧山:could all think from the position of 胡伟良 ........ could all think from the position of 胡伟良. From the existing rules, onl...)can ask hu wei liang if he accept 9th position challenger since he's involve.[吕大侠 (12-17 8:55, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]225楼
(引用 吕大侠:can ask hu wei liang if he accept 9th position challenger since he's involve.)sometime some people may prefer not to win by walkover..[吕大侠 (12-17 8:57, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]226楼
(引用 吕大侠:sometime some people may prefer not to win by walkover..)however, if he prefer to win by walkover then sixga can still stick to the rules[吕大侠 (12-17 8:59, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]227楼
(引用 吕大侠:however, if he prefer to win by walkover then sixga can still stick to the rules)organiser hav final say,cause so much effort is expended to coordinate the event[吕大侠 (12-17 9:08, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]228楼
(引用 吕大侠:organiser hav final say,cause so much effort is expended to coordinate the event)whatever decision, there will always be people for and against it[吕大侠 (12-17 9:10, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]229楼
(引用 大忙人:Competition system for Division AI had been taking part the Division A national open Chinese Chess for so many years I feel that...)I agree tht the 11 rounds system is the best as well.This system was implimented at first due to unscrupulous practises amongst players. Nevertheless, this has lead to other problems such as allowing weaker players to enter the round of top 4 during the 7th round. Personally I would prefer the 11th round system considering that this sytem benefits the stronger players and would induce stronger players to take more risk. Moreover, there would be less "black horses" involved. For players that take more risk, it is obvious that the 11 round system would suits them better. Anyway, regardless of whatever system used. It will never be a perfect system that would suit all players. [xiaobeidou (12-17 9:25, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]230楼
(引用 吕大侠:IF STICKING TO THE RULES MAINTAINED ORDER AT THE EXPENSE OF INTEGRITY, WORTH IT?)Depends on the reason that 卷心菜 cannot play. Might not be an integrity issue[xiaobeidou (12-17 9:33, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]231楼
(引用 吕大侠:whatever decision, there will always be people for and against it)Question is majority win or minority win?[吕大侠 (12-17 9:33, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]232楼
(引用 吕大侠:Question is majority win or minority win?)is this a democratic or autocratic society? or is it "bureaucratic" !?[吕大侠 (12-17 9:35, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]233楼
(引用 xiaobeidou:Depends on the reason that 卷心菜 cannot play. Might not be an integrity issue)definitely, & i agree totally..[吕大侠 (12-17 9:43, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]234楼
(引用 吕大侠:definitely, & i agree totally..)my view on integrity issue here is to attain 'B' grade status through a duel.[吕大侠 (12-17 9:51, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]235楼
(引用 xiaobeidou:I agree tht the 11 rounds system is the best as well.This system was implimented at first due to unscrupulous practises amongst ...)Just to add another point.A major advantage of this system is that it allows more players to represent the country. Since the top 4 positions are different yearly, This would give more players opportunity and hope to attain a better result. Rather than the same few players representing Singapore each year. This is vital to promote the game. [xiaobeidou (12-17 9:53, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]236楼
(引用 吕大侠:my view on integrity issue here is to attain 'B' grade status through a duel.)so that 'B' grade skill level of the individual is more accurate and complete.[吕大侠 (12-17 9:56, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]237楼
(引用 吕大侠:so that 'B' grade skill level of the individual is more accurate and complete.)how can there be integrity on that(skill of one)with walkover win(less accurate)[吕大侠 (12-17 10:04, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]238楼
(引用 kurubear:Any ideas to improve the skill level of Grade B players instead ? ...I noticed as the years pass by, more and more of these play...)The only way to up the standard is to hold more competitionsBy holding more competitions, it would improve the chess feel of players. It is also crucial to find young talent at schools due to higher living standards inclined towards married couples. Compared to the past, more people are moving towards their career and family and spending less time on chess. My guess for this is because couples cannot do this together. It also depends on the nature of their jobs. Those working in banks as an analyst would obviously not have the time to take leave to play chess compared to a property or insurance agent. [xiaobeidou (12-17 10:08, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]239楼
(引用 吕大侠:HOWEVER, FINAL DECISION IS STILL SIXGA PREROGATIVE & SHOULD BE HONORED.)I think it's only fair to stick to the rules of the competition.The original rules have already stated that the top 8 players will qualify for the quarter-final and it should be honoured. Whether 卷心菜 turns up or not should not be used as a consideration to admit Chen Jing Ling to the quarter-final. This holds true even for international competitions. If a sportsman is absent from a match for whatever reason, it is considered a walkover and that no replacement is allowed. [155HgFH88 (12-17 10:08, Long long ago)] [ 传统版 | sForum ][登录后回复]240楼